40 replies to this topic

[greywolf]

Japofran, on Jun 29 2007, 06:41 AM, said:

I finally gave in to temptation.

Wise decision.

But you really don't need to worry about defending against goblin attacks right now. You can refine your defense system later, so just focus on learning the game and make lots of small fortresses, so you can practice getting through the first winter (which is probably the hardest part of the game, really). Once you do that, you're basically set, because getting a food supply established is the most challenging thing for new players to do.

[Japofran]

Well surviving the first winter is easy now (finally) for me, the problem is  that I've got no idea about the advanced parts of the game. The wiki is definitely better than nothing but it's not a game manual. This is the most complicated game I've ever seen but it provides the most meager help. Well I guess I could browse (some more) its forums, but they don't have stickies. One's got to do quite a lot of research to learn this game.

About defences, I've read here and there and it seems that people rely mostly on traps (besides soldiers of course who are the last line). I've heard about very sofisticated tactics, choking points, steam (althogh I've also heard that in the latest version steam doesn't cause damage any longer), etc. That's why Havell's fortress surprised me, I assume the ^'s are traps although I haven't made one myself yet, but compared to the paranoid things I read here and there about dozens of traps in the same corridor and so they seem very few. If Havell --or someone else-- explained how the defence system in his pic works it would be really helpfull for the noobs...

And a silly question, do dwarfes die of old age? And animals?

[Havell]

Yeah, the ^ signs are traps, the white ones are stone fall traps and the red ones weapon traps.  As you can see in the pic, I've put weapon traps all along one side of the chasm, I've since done the same on the other side; the chasm is the main place that I get attacked from (I've not had anything coming out of the river yet) and the traps kill 90% of attackers the moment they jump out.  It's very efficient because the bits of monster are just thrown straight back into the chasm
I've since added another two lines of weapon traps to the entrance, each with three weapons that dead enemies dropped (which is a very cost effective way building good traps, since there's not much else to do with captured weapons, and you end up with quite a few).

Aside from traps, I've built my barracks next to the chasm so a fast response is possible if anything gets past (though I don't think they've been needed since I built the traps).
Also, though you can't see them in this pic, I put two ropes on each side of the chasm, and attached war dogs to them, meaning that if anything does get past the traps, then they'll be killed by the dogs.  I've seen bloodstains around the dogs so they are doing some work.  I also put ropes with dogs attached on either side of of my main entrance, to defend against kobold and goblin thieves that enter via the main gate.  In practice, the thieves often just run past them, but the dogs still sometimes take one of it's legs off or something.  I usually activate a small squad and send it down the main corridor, after the thief.

With regard to the incredibly elaborate defence systems you often see, they're mostly constructed out of fun and creativity, rather than actual need.  Goblin sieges can be quite nasty, but I managed my first one by just sending my 12 soldiers (not all that skilled) just running out towards them.  This should have been a suicide mission, since there were about 30 goblins, of which about 15 had crossbows and were firing at my dwarves for all they were worth, but I killed the whole lot of them with only four dead and three wounded.

Efficiency is, quite simply, more important than complex defence systems.

I don't think either dwarves or animals die of old age, though children do grow up, of course.  This means you'll need to keep an eye on the population of cats and horses you have in your fort (you can never have too many (war)dogs, of course) of they'll start to slow the game down.  The supply of bones, leather and meat that you get from slaughtering excess animals is nice.

[Potatoe]

Nothing dies of old age in this game... yet. I think it's mentioned in the dwarf fortress devolopment section, they plan to add it sometime. Check it out.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Lmao, putting all my dwarves on drawbridges and shooting them into magma, perfect for when your fortress goes to hell and there's no way to fix it.

[Japofran]

Okay I guess I'll just have to learn by myself like pretty much everyone else, because I've never tried all the way yet, let's see how many tries I need for my dwarves not to end as goblin mess. But then I understand that the only massive attacks are the sieges, that attackers from the river/well/chasm/lava come one or few at a time? Also I've got an idea to defend the entrance that sounds simple yet effective, I'll let you know if it works. When do siegers try to storm your fortress and when do they just sit outside?

By the way look what I found:

http://www.bay12game...a...=7&t=000834

[Blood-Pigggy]

Yeah I think they can die from old age but I've never managed to make a fort that lasts that long, I either got bored from the fort (I like starting from scratch) or something goes wrong.

[Docktor_Worm]

should you ever build storage space and workshops outside of the mountain?

[BeefontheBone]

's probably not bad at the very start since you won't have much space indoors straight off (unless you brought a bunch of extra picks). In quiet areas they're pretty safe for a year or two probably. You'll want to move everything inside at some point though, for protection and efficiency. I'm no expert though - will probably get back into it after the next release if I get chance; I'd need to give it a large chunk of time.

[Havell]

Docktor_Worm, on Jul 4 2007, 11:06 PM, said:

should you ever build storage space and workshops outside of the mountain?

I always build my first workshops outside.  Just a carpenter's, mason's and a mechanic's, to build some furniture while there's digging going on; otherwise the dwarves just stand around idle while the miners work.
It doesn't take too long before I move them inside though.  Like Beef said, it's more efficient in terms of the workers being able to get to them easier from their bedrooms and the dining room.

With stockpiles, I used to build a large stone stockpile outside the fortress to keep all of the stone I was digging out of the mountain, but now I don't, as it takes a lot of labour to keep hauling out the stone, and I can't see any disadvantage to jsut leaving it lying around the fort.
Another thing I sometimes do is to have a large wood stockpile outside the the woodcutters put wood into, with the smaller, indoor wood stockpiles next to the carpenters' workshops set to take wood from it.  This is a good approach to take as it allows you to save space inside and lets you operate a large amount of small stockpiles and keep them filled.  I tend to put my large wood stockpile inside now though, space isn't at that much of a premium with the way I now design forts.

[Docktor_Worm]

crap, seeds wash away in the rain, and so now all my seeds, my only source of food are gone.